Back and forth with strident "pro-vax" advocates

Reasons for Resistance in the face of Increasing Evidence Undermining the "Pro-Vax" Stance

Image Source: pinterest.com

For those readers not on Twitter/X and therefore not able to follow this conversation on that platform, I am sharing a lengthy back & forth below. Readers who are encountering similar arguments might appreciate having the links I pulled together on hand. Note though how despite all my efforts, SHARING INFORMATION does not appear successful. You might be able to lead horses to water, but you CAN’T MAKE THEM DRINK!!

I find it hard to just stick to “Question Mode” and to ask people to find evidence to support their own notions around “safe and effective” vaccines. This is because I know that they may be at a total loss as to where to start - given the near total grip mainstream media has on any non-”safe and effective” narrative information.

In this post written 12 months ago, I tried to list potential information sources OUTSIDE of the mainstream media bubble. I have not yet updated it.

It is always interesting to see which arguments “pro-vaxxers” pull out in the face of the collapsing “safe and effective” narrative.

Who would have thought though, when we first started on this COVID journey, that FOUR YEARS in, people are still not getting the “other side of the story”!!!

(Because the URLs are not clickable in the screen caps, I am squeezing them in along the way. Yet, I recommend reading the “conversation” once through before stopping to open links.)

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SUMMARY

For those who do not have the time or the interest to read a wide-ranging “back and forth” here is a summary:

In the minds of those engaging in this conversation:

COVID-19 mRNA “vaccines” are safe and effective…

a) because the Canadian Covid Care Alliance has a disclaimer on their website;

b) because two scientists at the National Center of Vaccine and Bioprocessing, King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia had the audacity to publish this statement in September 2023: No safety concerns have been identified related to either the BNT162b2 or Moderna vaccines. And because those same two scientists compared one 2020 and 3 2021 COVID-19 vaccine trail reports and assumed that what was written there still applied in Sept. 2023. (My conversation partner then assumed that this publication can still stand strong despite all the findings that have come forward to date - we are now in August 2024.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10588549/#REF3 ;

COVID-19 mRNA “vaccines” are also safe and effective…

c) because the US-based Vaccine Adverse Event Recording System (VAERS) accepts submissions from the public;

d) because Reuter fact checkers said that VAERS data do not suggest COVID-19 vaccines killed 15,000 people;

e) because VAERS reports are allegedly irrelevant now that major studies have been done showing vaccine safety;

f) because “conspiracy theorists” don’t know how VAERS works;

g) because in March 2020 the WHO website on vaccine safety declared that vaccines are safe, making no mention of COVID-19 mRNA injections. My conversation partner assumed this safety claim applies to mRNA injections too. (The definition of “vaccine” needed to be changed to accommodate mRNA products as their function did not match the original part of the definition that vaccines provide lasting immunity. When updating the site in 2023, WHO staff did not account for the difference in vaccine types. It also made no mention of the preponderance of published, peer-reviewed evidence that had been amassed already by that time dispelling the “safe and effective” mantra;

Furthermore, COVID-19 mRNA “vaccines” are safe and effective…

h) because the many analyses of the Pfizer data released to the public by court order are published on a platform fronted by a non-scientist (Dr. Naomi Wolf). And because she had a hit piece written against her back in 2014 for being overly passionate in her writing which one of my conversation partners took to imply mental instability. (Who knows what the relationship between that author and Wolf was and what this could possibly have to do with disregarding the findings of the many scientific and medical analysts now looking at troves of data that Pfizer wanted to keep secret for decades?);

i) because a major study on myocarditis (Rose/McCullough) was withdrawn from publication by a journal that had already committed to publishing it;

j) because some unnamed doctors have not seen major changes in illness and mortality before and after the COVID-19 vaccination roll out;

k) because some unnamed people in the medical world believe that vaccines work and do not cause significant damage, but that COVID does;

l) because some people talking about the lack of safety and efficacy of mRNA injections cannot understand all the details in professional peer-reviewed studies and share links to videos made by scientists instead;

m) because someone named Asseem is a scammer and a liar (according to one of my conversation partners);

n) because someone shared a blurry video showing a well known person talking about the push to inject many people but the video was missing references or context;

o) because Bill Gates has been financing charities for years;

p) because the “anti-vax” movement has allegedly been harmful going back even before 2019;

q) because a platform that shows video excerpts of highly influential people speaking about publicly known official agendas published by globalist organizations is deemed by a little media rating agency as “Conspiracy/Pseudoscience”. This when the agency has an advertising dependency on one of the major investors in pharmaceutical manufacturers involved in producing COVID-19 mRNA products;

r) because a media platform funded partly by the Canadian government (Global News) published a hit piece on Canadian physicians who abide by the Hippocratic oath to do no harm. These physicians chose to remain firm when told by their medical regulators to follow protocols that are clearly known to cause harm. In previous decades, highly ethical and principled people who defied corrupt authorities and remained committed to the wellbeing of people in need were celebrated, not condemned. Think of most of your favourite books and movies where the “good guys” go against all odds to rescue or save suffering people. What has happened in society that heroes are now villainized by corporate and government backed media? - But I digress, back to the topic at hand!

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PLAY BY PLAY

This is how this conversation started:

I assume “Beverathome” and “Peter in silico” stumbled across Dr. Oliver’s post and happened to see my response.

I see now that “Bever” went further in this string of comments but with all the other strings of the conversation that continued down other lines, I totally missed these points:

{To access links referred to in the section above see: https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/featured/covid-19-mrna-genetic-vaccines-were-pregnant-and-breastfeeding-women-told-the-truth/

https://denvergazette.com/news/judge-scraps-75-year-fda-timeline-to-release-pfizer-vaccine-safety-data-giving-agency-eight/article_f007b8b4-ad66-59b4-a270-4709bc3e4814.html }

Instead, I followed this line of conversation:

{To access links referred to in the section above see: Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency at https://phmpt.org; https://dailyclout.io/?s=Pfizer}

I then took each of these three concerns one by one, which led to more strings of conversation with each comment leading again to further strings, on and on.

1: you provide a link to a form that anyone can fill in, so it is not verifiable

Here “McFunny” got into the discussion:

{LINKS: https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0MtPA5vQ4wrubFmMO_QQS5eGQAV7feZ9RP8mRqniiZR7sD0CMeRGryWfg; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10452662/}

Back to “Bever” responding to my having shared the legally sworn testimony by Dr. Jessica Rose - I didn’t make it clear to him/her that this is not just a video with a talk from 1 person, that all witnesses at the National Citizens Inquiry needed to legally attest to the truth of their testimonies.

I have no idea whether “Bever” took the time to open the link to the Pfizer press release I had shared. I wanted it to be known that Reuters as a news organization would be compromised due to its close ties to Pfizer. For 6 years leading up to the declaration of the pandemic, you have what should have been a controversial decision to appoint the CEO of an international news wire service to the board of THE PHARMA COMPANY that had faced the world’s largest health care fraud charges prior to 2009. https://abcnews.go.com/Business/pfizer-fined-23-billion-illegal-marketing-off-label/story?id=8477617

{To access links referred to in the section above see: https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/witness/dr-jessica-rose/; Why COVID-19 Vaccine Boosters are Unnecessary and Not Recommended: https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/22OC4_CCCA_Response_to_NACI_Guidelines-1.pdf ; twice above, I directed someone to the Pfizer document published on Feb 28 2021 in which Pfizer listed thousand of reports and countless different adverse events reported within days/weeks of injection: https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0MtPA5vQ4wrubFmMO_QQS5eGQAV7feZ9RP8mRqniiZR7sD0CMeRGryWfg; https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/james_c_smith_elected_to_pfizer_s_board_of_directors; https://www.pfizer.com/people/leadership/board_of_directors/james_smith}

Somewhere down this REUTERS String, “Bever” pointed out that…

In other words: a major cardiology journal run by Elesevir Publications had first agreed to publish an article on myocarditis following the C-19 injection that had been submitted jointly by Jessica Rose, PhD, MSc, BSc and Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH. It was entitled: A Report on Myocarditis Adverse Events in the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) in Association with COVID-19 Injectable Biological Products. Without warning and without following proper protocol, it was suddenly withdrawn. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8483988/

Now, a very similar version of that article was published here under this name: Determinants of COVID-19 vaccine-induced myocarditis

Looking back to where “Bever” had outlined the other two concerns:

2: your link to the dailycloud revealed a lot of anti-vax crap and household names responsible for it.

{This was in reference to the reports on the Daily Clout website: Here just one example: https://dailyclout.io/pfizer-biontech-c4591001-trial-audit-report-v1-2024-05-31-reanalysis-of-the-data-and-anomalies-inventoried/ }

3: the vaers, they come up with that every time. It's clear you don't know how the vaers works. They also have such a system here in my country. the conspiracy theorists like to take advantage of this.

…

At some point “Bever” assumes that the video shared by “Peter” was shared by me.

{ LINKS: In the above set, I referenced this post by Dr. Naomi Wolf; https://corbettreport.com/who-is-bill-gates-full-documentary-2020/; Inside Bill’s Brain-Decoding Bill Gates https://qr.netflix.com/ca/title/80184771 ; this post on the basic mechanism of an mRNA injection; and https://wide-awake-media.com (Wide Awake Media is still showing up “under maintenance” I worry that this small but amazing operation has run into legal or financial problems, as that is the same message showing 10 days ago.)}

At this point “Bever” provides me with the link to the rating that Media Bias/Fact Check gives Wide Awake Media:

For more details see:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/wide-awake-media-bias/

Here, for better legibility is a larger version of the Advertising info on Media Bias Fact Check:

Going back to another side string, this conversation continued ( I am not posting things in total chronological order as with so many side strings going on concurrently, reposting by topic seems more logical.)

{LINKS: https://drtrozzi.org/2023/09/28/1000-peer-reviewed-articles-on-vaccine-injuries/ ; and my post from February 15, 2023: As we near the 2nd anniversary of the SALK Institute spike protein findings…How “Following the Scientific Method” works.}

Here yet another string:

“Bever” linked to a post on the World Health Organization website claiming that vaccines are safe and effective:

https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/vaccines-and-immunization-vaccine-safety

{LINKS:

https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/vaccines-and-immunization-vaccine-safety;

https://www.who.int/teams/health-product-policy-and-standards/standards-and-specifications/vaccine-standardization/mrna-vaccines ;

https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/biologicals/vaccine-standardization/annex-3---mrna-vaccines_who_trs_1039_web-2.pdf?sfvrsn=6e31a112_1&download=true}

At some point, I thought that this might be an angle that could be instructive for either “Bever” or “McHappy”:

{ LINKS: Kevin McKernan spoke here: https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/witness/kevin-mckernan/; Dr. Bridle’s post on the topic is here; and see also https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/expert-witnesses/}

Then “Bever” linked to the Global News hit piece from 2022 (by Ashleigh Stewart)

https://globalnews.ca/news/8517353/canada-doctors-covid-vaccine-disinformation/

(More on this later)

Getting back to the Naomi Wolf angle:

I chose to ignore this.

(I assumed that neither of my conversation partners took any time at all to look at the contents of the links I was sharing, as their comments flew back with such rapidity.)

{LINKS: https://phmpt.org, and this link to info about Operation Gladio - anyone who knows about this type of activity would understand Dr. Naomi Wolf’s concern. Anyone who does not have this reference point could well think these types of concerns are truly unwarranted.}

Getting back to this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10588549/ An 2023 article published in Cureus.

and now returning to this:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8517353/canada-doctors-covid-vaccine-disinformation/

https://rumble.com/vttfhd-mainstream-media-is-bought-by-justin-trudeau...-in-his-own-words.....html

Despite ALL the back and forth, “Bever” chose to close with this.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/21501319221089255

There were no further replies from “Bever” to my response.

It seems that “McFunny” may still actively be seeking conversation.